was it a tornado? or just straight line winds? you decide!

Published by: webmaster 2010-03-19

hopefully this was the best place to put this?

http://www.realclearwx.com/tornadornot.htm

Preliminary data from TUL indicates this was a tornado...F1, 1.5 mile path, 100yds wide. Information I had says a survey was done, but I don't know if that was done by TUL people or based on Brian's information.

Welcome to Localism::
Apr 3, 2008 Straight line winds can be as damaging as a tornado sometimes. Sounds just like something my husband would decide to do.
http://localism.com/blog/mo/lebanon/posts/448385/Spring-Storm-Brings-DamageHOME

Rob

One thing I did notice that was a little peculiar in the photos is the way the attic's cellulose insulation (at least I'm assuming that is what the white stuff is) was deposited. This pattern may only be the result of the way it chose to settle once ejected? But the way it stuck to the side of the house looks interesting :)

Like Rob said, it would be nice to have a video...not that it wasn't fun checking out all the damage photos!!

SWIFT WX Support Forums :: View topic - Wednesday, 11/05/2008 has ::
Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:47 pm Post subject: We had 2 Tornado Warnings and They have not determined if that was rotating or straight-line winds yet.
http://www.swiftwx.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=3941&sid=626203f571c2fb3b0ec9c70f9392c7bbHOME

Pat

Originally posted by Shane Adams
I don't get why it's policy to assume it's not a tornado if the evidence is inconclusive. Who decided that straight line winds get the automatic nod without overwhelming edvidence to the contrary?
Shane, it is accepted practice (although not always followed) to rate conservatively, and then look for evidence that it may have been worse. Tim Marshall says, "Sometimes the evidence is in what was not damaged" in reference to things like "sliders".

Slider: Home insecurly fastened to foundation and "slides off" in high wind. May be a "foundation swept clean", but it is not an F5.

http://realclearwx.com/images/31050.jpg

Seems to be taking whatever that white stuff is and spreading it out onto one side of the house. Very little wraparound.

Also I'm not sure what the satellite dish would tell us, nor how downburst boards into roofs look any different that tornado boards?

Well, I don't look at these things all the time but I'd say you need more information. The pictures are good, but they just don't have that one piece of evidence that answers the question.

An expert could probably look at those photos and decide, but I don't see it at this time.

Originally posted by Steven Williams
How narrow a damage trail could straight line winds do?
very good question. the terrain of the area would not support any sort of enhanced wind speeds. i am not sure you could have such a narrow straight line wind damage event... but who knows. im sure its happened before. what storm processes could have such narrow wind damage?-when terrain doesnt appear to be an issue?

For downburst winds, one house being untouched and another getting a roof removed is not at all uncommon. The problem is that without video evidence, many times low-end tornadoes will NEVER be able to be determined. Just too similar...

Originally posted by rdale
For downburst winds, one house being untouched and another getting a roof removed is not at all uncommon. The problem is that without video evidence, many times low-end tornadoes will NEVER be able to be determined. Just too similar...

I don't get why it's policy to assume it's not a tornado if the evidence is inconclusive. Who decided that straight line winds get the automatic nod without overwhelming edvidence to the contrary?

It sure would be nice to see a photo of more than one side of that house with all the insulation stuck to it, though.

A plane ride over the area might also beter determine stright line or tornadic winds as well.

JH

i havent seen anything come down from tulsa... do u have a link?
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Brian,

No official link as of yet...I heard it from a friend that works at NWS OUN, he passed along the info that someone from NWS TUL had surveyed the damage and it is a confirmed tornado.

Rob

Because of the odds. MUCH more damage comes from straight-line winds. MANY more thunderstorms have wind than tornadoes. So until proven otherwise, you have to go with downbursts...

It looks like to me, to be more of tornado damage. It's hard to tell I guess, since I am not there. But based on those photographs I would assume it was a tornado. The one house was completely un-touched, which makes me think this, but who knows.

I'd say tornado based on the fact there were light outbuildings between severe structural damage that were untouched. SL wind events tend to be thorough, not finicky.

Then again I thought Mulvane was an F4, so I could be wrong.

I don't get why it's policy to assume it's not a tornado if the evidence is inconclusive. Who decided that straight line winds get the automatic nod without overwhelming edvidence to the contrary?
[/b]

Occam's razor.

Since straight line winds are a much more common occurance than tornadoes (even weak ones), in the absence of evidence clarifying, one would conclude straight line winds.

I agree regarding the spotty nature of straight line wind events. I remember one event in particular where a large, recently constructed barn was severely damaged...while the owner's house and surrounding vegetation, which were only several hundred yards away, suffered no ill effects.

This was a derecho event, so even they don't do damage to everything in their path.

Pat

How narrow a damage trail could straight line winds do?

I would say tornado. The satellite dish on house appeared to me to be twisted. Plus the boards stuck though the rooftops seem like tornado damage Ive seen.